I was there around 11am and noticed lots of people sitting at the tables. This area was packed with people from all over the valley, the reason I know that was because I had asked a few people where they were from. The word was out that at 12 noon they would all be singing. Several had asked me if I was going to sing, maybe because I was wearing a red sweater!
So around 11:30 I started to ask those at the tables if I could buy their seat for a Million Dollars? Most of them said no, and others reached out for them. For those who said no I gave them the Million Dollar Gospel Tract anyway, and told everyone of them to read the back. It asks the Million Dollar question, "Are you good enough to get into Heaven?"
Watch as you will see hundreds of people singing this song. As I was filming this event, it came to me that the majority of those who were there were probably Church people.
Now that you have seen the video, would you agree that this reaching out was mainly for those who either sing in a choir or attend a Church. I mention this possibility because when I was leaving the mall, which was right after the singing, the parking garage was overflowing with other cars leaving.
If this was to be an outreach to the community, it seemed to be to only the community to those who attend Church.
This site is primarily to help others learn how easy it is to share the Gospel. Jesus used the Ten Commandments in Luke 18:18 when the rich ruler asked what he must do to get into Heaven.
Also by using these innovative and acceptable tracts from "The Way of The Master", by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, you get the opportunity to get the Word of God into the hands of the lost.
Also by using these innovative and acceptable tracts from "The Way of The Master", by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, you get the opportunity to get the Word of God into the hands of the lost.
11 comments:
Not sure how you arrived at your conclusion.
I would have to ask - if it (its purpose) was only for the choir and those who attend church as you believe, why would they sing Handel's Messiah with some pretty decent volume in the middle of an open, public mall, rather than closed up in a church somewhere? I would suspect that even if the original purpose was narrow and owned by just one or even a few; it could not help but eventually be owned by the many involved and would vary somewhat person to person. That said, I'd suspect that the most common purpose of those who became involved might be that Jesus would be acknowledged and glorified (Phillipians 2:9-10), no matter who heard it and/or or sang it. Ultimately God ordains everything that comes to pass - without that it wouldn't have happened. And His purpose is complex and works all things together for good for them who He calls for His purpose... so besides glorifying Jesus's name via the confession of those singing, He most likely is doing His mysterious work in the hearts of some (or many) of those who heard it, whether for their initial saving justification or their sanctification.
Your unstated point has to be deeper Tom... Maybe you feel that the purpose should have been evangelical, with more concerted emphasis being placed on sharing the Gospel? But it's kind of fuzzy about what you might be saying about dealing with the crowd whether "churched" or "unchurched"...
I guess I just should have asked brother... what is your point?
May God be glorified,
Dale
Dale thanks for your comment. I arrived at my conclusion based on the discussions I had with about 50 of those who where there. I walked up to several of them who were sitting at tables and asked if they would sell their sit for a Million Dollars. This allowed me to engage with them and to ask the question about being Good Enough to get into Heaven? I thought most of them were shoppers, but I found out that most were the singers.
All of them said yes and it was because God was a loving God. Several told me they were there to sing and didn't need the Gospel tracts I was offering. I asked would it be helpful to the Lord to give it to someone else who may need to read God's Word? Only a few thanked me and said that that was a great idea.
So I guess what I saw was a lot of church goers praising that they were singing in a public place but were not willing to speak to someone who may be lost. (Romans 10:17) Paul is clear Faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ. In Gal.3:24 he states, Therefore the Law has become our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. In Romans 7:7, Paul would have not know sin except by the Law. So signing a praise to the Lord to those who are not thankful for what Jesus did for them on the cross is foolishness. Paul states that in 1Cor. 1:18. So my point I guess was to help others understand that just singing about Jesus in public without given them the real reason Jesus is being praised. He died because I sinned against a Holy God and deserved to be sent to Hell.
I pray that just 1% of those who had the courage to come out to a public place to sing, would also want the opportunity to learn how to speak to perfect strangers and share the truth with them, just like Jesus did. When he said "come follow Me:, I think it meant to imitate Him...doesn't it?
This information is now clearly available from Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron at http://www.livingwaters.com/
You got to see a flash mob do Handels Messiah - how cool! I saw the vid of Macy's in NJ
so...not sure I understand - most of the people you talked with, gave tracts to were Christians and / or church goers? How did they react?
(I'm always surprised when i meet someone to find they ARE a Christian but the greeting is more suspicious and cautious than an exuberant "yesss!")
So not sure I'm tracking with you but I will say this:
I would rather a bunch of Christians periodically pile into a mall and the public witness Biblically-based praises to God
than for us to stay cloistered in our buildings --often built from a mis-use of Scripture (Mal. 3:8)
Good day - I think last Sat. -- Got to witness to Santa. (!) Thought he would enjoy a big Christmas million with his pic on it. Knew NOTHING about Christmas, so I told him :-)Ear-marked and gave him a NT, promised to read the 1st 2 chapters of Luke. His name is Raphael, if you could remember him in prayer.
Later that night (morning - 1:30am by then), party on my street (ASU kids) got to talk and pray with a 17 yr old girl named Cameron. She knows the scriptures and prayed to have more faith. She was very aware and thankful for our "chance" encounter. Me too!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Christy
Christy,
They were standoffish. Usually the church goers are not friendly and when they find out I'm giving them a Gospel Tract the typical response is I'm a Christian I don't need one of those. I then say if you are then why not give one to someone you know that I don't, just like I did to you.
One lady said why are you giving away Gospel Tracts to us as we are all Christians! I then said that I was sorry because I didn't see a cross on her forehead so how was I to know.
Again usually they walk away. Sometimes they take em but at this place I gave away a bunch and noticed that those who were there only spoke to those who were at their tables.
So, all these people will come out to sing publicly, in front of strangers, yet how many would be willing to share the Gospel? It doesn't sound like too many were interested in that, from their reactions to the tracts.
Am I misunderstanding the Great Commission, that we are to sing to strangers and then run home, or are we to share the Gospel, warning them of the wrath to come and giving the lost the Good News?
Here's a question; who was glorified on this day, all those beautiful voices from the choir who have a talent for singing or the Lord Jesus Christ?
What a show you've got here Tom...
slinging generalities & judgements around as if they were verified as truth;
as if it was your place to do so...
as if online was the place to do it...
as if doing it without their permission was "treating others as better than ourselves"...
as if your own Christian worldview is the clear, complete, and infallible standard of judgment...
I'm waiting for the commercial:
"TTNRF.. where "equipping" means that we pride ourselves on throwing the baby out with the bath water...
TTNRF... where the end justifies the means..." ;-)
I love you man; but this posting is just wrong. You're jumping to unsupported conclusions and judgments... and into "uncharted territory". What ever happened to sowing & equipping the saints to do so?
Al,
Brother, I welcome your zeal, but like Tom you're jumping to conclusions.
Reactions to the tracts, hmm... I can think of a long list of reasons why their outer reaction doesn't match Tom's B&W assessment. Personally I dislike tracts; but yet I occasionally share the Gospel. So I'm not sure how either of you makes the leap from their reaction to their being unwilling to share the gospel. It's not a given.
And we can't know they were "singing to strangers & then running home" either. Might it be possible that for many, their singing was a heartfelt act of confession of Jesus as per Romans 10:8-11? Or possible that for some, this was a step in their growth toward a Christian walk that might eventually include more effective sharing of the Gospel?
To answer your 2nd question, I don't know if you misunderstand the Great Commision (or if we both do), but like Tom, you're zealous about whatever it is that you do understand about it & associate with it. I think that the message you're hoping to get across might be more effective via constructive illumination rather than serving up insinuations with no clear point.
It hurts me to say that your question, "... who was glorified on this day, all those beautiful voices from the choir who have a talent for singing or the Lord Jesus Christ?", is just unreasonable.
Handel's Messiah is an oratorio of messianic themes; from the need for a messiah & prophesies concerning him, to his birth, death, resurrection, & ascension. Arguably that's the framework for the Gospel. In Phillipians 2, Paul tells us that God has glorified Jesus because of His finished work. The Hallelujiah Chorus in this oratorio is about glorifying Jesus Christ for his finished work. The King who first heard it stood in reverance to the true "King of kings, & Lord of lords", establishing a long tradition of glorifying Jesus as Lord in this way wherever the chorus is performed. The content & tradition of this piece, plus the evidence clearly point to these people glorifying Jesus Christ as a public act, so I'm puzzled.
You would have to be referring to some ethereal glory that comes about as some synthesis of worthy human intent or worthy human action(s) and some sanctifying participation by God, such would only be detectable by Him, the Heavenly Hosts, & whomever it's revealed... otherwise it's unmeasurable by unglorified humankind. But yet you imply that that their intent is personal glory, that Jesus isn't glorified. So you must either have special revelation about the unworthiness or know from Scripture that when Jesus is proclaimed in public, that unless one is also using WOTM-blessed techniques, that all the glory goes to oneself; not Jesus.
Bottom line: I believe you should rethink this. Truth matters. There's no reasonable support for your insinuation that these peeps are glorifying self. Since none of us can possibly know their intent without revelation (especially against the physical evidence), or that someone's intent or action doesn't result in Jesus Christ being "ethereally" glorified; & since implication further “begs the question”, truth just isn't illuminated here--either about what they were actually doing, how it differs from what you believe they should be doing, or what glory was "generated". Further, can we be so arrogant to act as tho our own dogma is an infallible basis for judgment of another's walk? There are Godly men with differing views. We are not the Holy Spirit. We should be voracious for truth and humble lights for the truth we believe we know.
I wonder, would you find it valid if someone were to ask, "who was glorified on this day, the sowers with all of their talent for confrontational sharing & pharisaical insinuations, or the Lord Jesus Christ?". Forgive me Al, I couldn't resist... ;)
Tom you asked,
"...When he said "come follow Me:, I think it meant to imitate Him...doesn't it?"
As I continue to tell you, it's not nearly as simplistic as you love to make it Tom. You are making the assumption that following Him, means immitating him. If so, what does that really encompass? He is the Shepherd and we are the sheep. Where does that concept take us? Does it say that we like sheep must go out and become shepherds ourselves to lead our own flocks? There are so many similar dead-end conclusions we could make by applying the precept of imitation... because we are not like him. He spoke with authority and the understanding that only the The Son of God could command. He communed with the Father in a rich daily exchange that drove his every action. He had no place to lay his head. He suffered greatly as a servant. He forgave sins. He was Lord of the Sabbath. He was tempted as we are, yet without sin. He was craftier than Satan. He could see into the hearts of people. He did miracles and raised the dead. He died on the cross. He was Prophet, Priest, Mediator, & King. He rose from the dead. He was the firstborn of many. Which of these are you going to imitate? And by going out and sharing per your own urgent mandate, which of the other teachings and principles do you then conveniently ignore because they are less improtant to you or not so easy for you personally? Just sayin'... The ardent follower of Jesus has a formidable task before him or her, in that it's not only the words of Jesus we must interpret, but Paul, Peter, James, and John and the Myriad of other authors who add pieces to the puzzle of who God is and what He expects of us. At the least we must find the original meaning of what they wrote (what it meant to those it spoke to in that time and culture; and then also what it means to us today in a totally different culture and context; and finally put it into an overall context, a systematic theology if you will).
You know I love you as a brother Tom. I would be grateful to you if you would at least make a more definitive study of what Jesus did and what you believe he exactly expects us to "immitate" today, and then post it.
Dale said: [It hurts me to say that your question, "... who was glorified on this day, all those beautiful voices from the choir who have a talent for singing or the Lord Jesus Christ?", is just unreasonable.]
Really? Then how do you answer the question? Let me be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this singing. I think it's great. The problem I have with it is when it's considered evangelism or witnessing in some way, because it is not. These people were obviously great singers, which takes talent and work. And it's awesome that they would use their talent for the Lord.
So, maybe I am wrong in that sense. But to call this some sort of evangelical outreach is simply not what it was.
Here's where I come up with my opinion. As far as I know, none of these people have expressed any interest in how to actually share the Gospel with others. It certainly isn't that they're afraid to come out in public and make some sort of presentation. Obviously, they are willing to use the talents that they have in singing a Christian song in a public place.
That is where I believe they receive a certain amount of glory. They have talent, they can sing, and they are willing to do so because they are confident in their abilities as a group - and that is to their glory.
But anyone can talk, it doesn't take any sort of talent, no one would say that I receive glory from simply speaking. Anyone can do what I do in sharing the Gospel. They can speak to people one to one, they can hand out tracts, they can even get a mic and preach in the open air. We are commanded to share the Gospel, so that's just obedience, and the Lord is the only one glorified through that.
Dale said: [Further, can we be so arrogant to act as tho our own dogma is an infallible basis for judgment of another's walk?]
Are we not to judge those inside the Church?
I find it interesting that the people most against sharing the Gospel using the Biblical principles taught in WOTM, are those inside churches. They almost seem more opposed to it than the atheists that meet us out on Mill.
Yet, the people on the streets, the people that we talk to every week, those who we share the Gospel with are rarely angry. Most often, they actually thank us for explaining it in a way that makes sense that they have never heard before.
Dale said: [I wonder, would you find it valid if someone were to ask, "who was glorified on this day, the sowers with all of their talent for confrontational sharing & pharisaical insinuations, or the Lord Jesus Christ?". Forgive me Al, I couldn't resist... ;) ]
Quite alright. Of course I'd find it valid! And I would never say that one didn't have the right to say it. I welcome the opportunity to discuss these things. And I would give the defense that it takes no talent at all, just a desire to seek and save the lost as we are commanded by the Lord.
Now, singing, you probably don't want to hear me attempt that, because that does take more talent than just a simple desire.
Dale said: [You know I love you as a brother Tom. I would be grateful to you if you would at least make a more definitive study of what Jesus did and what you believe he exactly expects us to "immitate" today, and then post it.]
Well, I'm not Tom, but I'll tell you what I think, since earlier you said that I was like him. I disagree a little bit here - I don't think that "follow" necessarily means "imitate."
Follow means that you believe what Jesus taught, that you submit to Him as Lord and that you obey His commands. Imitate comes in where Jesus clearly showed us how to do exactly what He commanded us to do in the Great Commission.
You've been through the classes, you know that the Bible teaches Law to the Proud, Grace to the humble. There's a book you can read (backed up by tons of Scripture), called "What Did Jesus Do?"
You don't even have to buy it, you can read it for free online. It shows exactly how Jesus witnessed to people, how Paul, Stephen, Peter, James, John the Baptist and Jude did it. I would highly recommend it to anyone who's reading this. Click here: What DID Jesus Do
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